Loryn Brantz is an Emmy-winning author, illustrator, and mom of two, who once built puppets for Sesame Street. Loryn joined Janet on a previous episode of “Unruffled” to talk about parenting a child with disabilities, sharing the joys and challenges of her journey with honesty and her signature warmth and wit. Her new book “Poems of Parenting” is a funny, touching, and totally relatable collection about her ups and downs raising kids, the awkward and sometimes difficult moments she’s come to cherish, and ultimately how she’s come to embrace her role as a parent.
Transcript of “3 Ways to Lift Your Parenting Spirits (with Loryn Brantz)”
Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled.
My guest today is a person who could be hugely intimidating if she weren’t so kind and down to earth: Loryn Brantz. She’s an uber-talented young mom of two children who’s also an author and illustrator. She was a builder and designer at Jim Henson’s workshop, creating props and puppets for PBS and Sesame Street. And for the latter, she won two Emmy awards for outstanding achievement in costume design and styling. She’s also created successful webcomics and a series of delightful board books for children that I’ve been collecting for my future grandchildren.
Loryn joined me on the podcast a couple of years ago for the episode “It Had to Be You — The Struggles and Joys of Raising a Child with Disabilities,” where we discussed the unique challenges she was facing parenting her first child. And Loryn’s latest work is Poems of Parenting, which is a book of short, insightful, amusing, incredibly relatable poems. It’s at the top of my gift recommendations for Mother’s Day or Father’s Day or any day. We’re going to talk all about why the perspectives in this book resonate and how they can help us to rise out of the everyday doldrums and frustrations, let’s be honest, of raising kids.
So here she is. Hi there, Loryn.
Loryn Brantz: Hi.
Janet Lansbury: I had so much fun with you the last time. First of all, we’re going to talk about your book. I’ve always been a fan of you, but this book is really, really special. I also wanted to find out what it’s like now with two children. Two children with different challenges, or maybe one has less challenges than the other. How do you manage that? How are you managing that?
Loryn Brantz: How am I managing it? I’m pretty tired, but I’m good. It has been different having a second child with very different needs. Sorry, I can hear them right now. I thought I’d have a quiet place to do this.
Janet Lansbury: Well, you should bring them on if they want to be in this.
Loryn Brantz: They want to be on it, probably!
Janet Lansbury: I love that. That’s my favorite thing, to have children in the podcast.
Loryn Brantz: Actually I had planned this, the timing. We live in a pretty small apartment, so no one really gets to do anything alone. And I planned this because I thought my son wakes up and I usually need to hold him for a while, so he knows I’m there and this or that. Then I can kind of pass him off to my mom or husband. But he hasn’t woken up from his nap yet, so he’s going to wake up and I’m not going to be available. So we have this whole plan with pretzels and we’ll see how it goes and see if he’s okay with me not being there when he gets up for a little bit.
Janet Lansbury: The pretzel plan. Well, if it doesn’t work, feel free to bring him in. I’m serious. I can talk to him. And how old is he now?
Loryn Brantz: He’s two-and-a-half and he is very chatty.
Janet Lansbury: Already? Wow.
Loryn Brantz: He’s very sweet. And I think some kids feel like you have the amount of more kids and other kids are easier. And my daughter is like maybe having five kids at once and my son is like having half a kid because he’s just so easy. So it’s like having five and a half kids.
Janet Lansbury: Five and a half. That’s a good number!
Loryn Brantz: Yes, I don’t want any more. I’m all done.
Janet Lansbury: Okay. Well, somebody said to me once, these parents that were my age, but they had I think already five kids or something and I didn’t have any kids yet, or maybe I had one. And I remember I said, How do you do it with all those kids? And the dad said, Well, one child takes up every minute of your time and energy. Two children take up every minute of your time and energy. You get the point. It’s like, well, it’s still going to take up every bit of your time and energy whether you have one or five. So I thought that was an interesting perspective.
Loryn Brantz: True, true.
Janet Lansbury: So your book, let’s talk a little about how it came about. I just have to say, it’s so impressive. I don’t know how you managed to do all of those things, these wonderful illustrations, your poetry. Did you say you did it during downtimes or when you were exhausted or in the middle of the night? What was the story again?
Loryn Brantz: It was kind of like an explosion out of me, this book. It was cool because I can remember exactly when I thought of it. My whole family, we were all sick, we all had terrible colds, flus, whatever. Nobody was sleeping. And I was working a lot too, so totally delirious, stretched way too thin. And I had finally gotten my son to sleep, or so I thought, and I went to my room and got into bed and I was like, Ah, finally. I had taken some NyQuil, I was ready to rest, and I started scrolling, looking at photos of him. As one does, because he’s so cute, and Dalia. Then I heard him cry out for me and my first instinct was like, Oh my gosh, shut up. Shut your baby face. I can’t do this right now. And that’s when I thought of the first poem, “Photos of You.” And I didn’t go and get him, I actually wrote the poem. And he resettled himself, which was nice.
And that night I thought of like 50 poems, I just couldn’t stop writing them. From there, honestly, I couldn’t focus. I was thinking of so many poems all the time and I couldn’t focus in meetings. And I decided it was time to really take a step back from everything else and try to follow my dream of being a full-time writer and focus on this book and parenting, and that’s what I did.
Janet Lansbury: Wow. Well, you do an amazing job of it. I wonder if maybe I should take NyQuil while I’m writing. Maybe that will free me from the judges in my head that are getting in the way. I was thinking that when I heard a little of your story, I was thinking, gosh, maybe there’s a freedom in being totally at your wit’s end, so exhausted. There is kind of this emancipation from the bosses in our head or whatever the voice is, telling us that we have to do this and we have to do that, and it’s got to be right and it’s got to be good. You really took advantage of that energy.
Loryn Brantz: I agree. I feel like when you’re just so exhausted, it’s like meditation: anything that gets you away from the voice in your head and more in your seat of consciousness, if you will.
Janet Lansbury: Yes. One thing I wanted to bring up because I thought it would be a really good, helpful message for everybody is that there are these different themes in your poems that I found. I always like to look at things and kind of make connections between one thing and another. And I noticed that there’s these wonderful, uplifting messages that you offer. And there’s three categories that I like, that I feel even if somebody didn’t read your book, they could benefit from these uplifting ways of being and thinking.
The first one is we talk so much about self-compassion and that’s such an important thing that we try to give that to ourselves. And I know I struggle with that. But it is sort of conceptual, self-compassion. And the way I’m translating it, based on your poems inspiring this thought in me, is as giving ourselves permission. Giving ourselves permission is something that’s more in the here and now, that we can consider doing. For example, in your book, it’s giving yourself permission to break the routine and celebrate. I’m going to read one of the poems that reminds me of that. It’s called “Tiny Bestie”:
Let’s cancel our plans
And put small toys in a line
Let’s cancel our plans
And stretch out some slime
Let’s cancel our plans
And go to our local bakery
Iced coffee for me
Cake pop for you
Me and my fave
Tiny bestie
I just love that thought of seizing the moment to celebrate and just give ourselves permission to let go of all these “shoulds” that we have going for us.
Loryn Brantz: That poem’s definitely inspired by my daughter. I mean, she specifically slowed me down in a lot of ways, even just physically because it took her a long time to walk and she had the walker and everything. And I think any toddler will slow you down. When we go down the street, we just really take it all in and all these little moments become so special. And we live near a Starbucks, she’ll get the cake pop, I get the iced coffee. It’s such a special mommy-daughter date and we can do it anytime.
Janet Lansbury: Yes, so you both benefit from the celebration of it. Just like, We’re going to just do this because we want to and why not? And you also have one about letting yourself be flabby and just a floppy, flabby mom.
Loryn Brantz: Do you want me to read it?
Janet Lansbury: Yes.
Loryn Brantz: Okay:
Mom Joy
Almost forty
Finally realize
what my body is for
It’s not for you
it’s not for them
My children come close, but not even then
It’s really for me
To carry my brain
Which holds more than expected
Stroll around Target
Solve big problems
Do nothing
Soft fleshy mush
Watch out everyone
Here comes my tush
Janet Lansbury: You just capture so many feelings and little moments that I resonate with completely as the mom of, well, my kids are older now, but it just brings me back to all the bittersweet aspects of it. And I just love, again, this permission that you encourage giving ourselves with the little celebration at the end of the day, of the champagne, all of those things. It’s so important to wake up every morning and say, What can I give myself permission to do today?
Loryn Brantz: True. What’s my little treat today? That one poem about putting one of the berries you buy for your kids in your drink at the end of the day. My son saw that I do that, and now he’s just constantly trying to put fruit in anything I drink. Anytime he has a fruit and I have a glass of water or anything, he’s plopping it in. He’s like, oh, put a strawberry in your water.
Janet Lansbury: That’s nice. And that’s another thing, that when we do these things like give ourselves permission and have these special rituals that are ours that we like and maybe nobody else wants it that way, but we do. And then our child gets to enjoy that and give permission to themselves as well, feel like that’s a part of being an adult. A lot of times they get this opinion of adults as it’s this boring thing where you’re always doing stuff for other people. Just another reason to let ourselves enjoy.
The second theme—I have three—the second theme I wanted to bring up is this idea of time traveling into the future. Now, a lot of times we might tend to do that in this worry fashion, like, Oh my gosh, my child is going to be like this because they’re doing this right now and They’re never going to share anything with anyone or They’re going to be hitting people or all of those scary things. So I definitely don’t recommend doing it when it’s coming from a fear place. But this idea that this too shall pass, which of course can help us get through a lot of things. Because it really does pass, even though it feels like it’s never going to pass and we’re never going to be free. Well, we’re never going to be free! I have adult children. We’re never going to be free completely, but we’re going to be a lot freer.
But this way that you have in your writing of zooming ahead and looking back at the silliness of this moment, I feel like it’s really helpful for us to do. Like the poem that you have, for example, about breastfeeding. You say:
Sometimes when I breastfeed
I look down
and think
Wow
This will be a full-grown adult someday
That’s really
Really
really weird
It’s called “Really Really Really Weird.” And you drew a picture of an adult sitting on your lap. Not breastfeeding, but sitting on your lap.
Loryn Brantz: That is one of my favorite ones. And I wanted that drawing to be the cover. The publisher was like, no, that’s really too weird. Yes, it’s funny though.
Janet Lansbury: That ability to do that, that you could kind of leave your body and look back on your life. That can be very healing and just really important, getting that perspective. There’s another one where there’s all the baby clothes and you’re saying, I’m with all these baby clothes. I’m stacking all these little tiny clothes. What is that going to be like, looking back on that? I think it’s really important.
Loryn Brantz: Yes. I’m really, really into mindfulness and meditation and being as present as I can. And I think the more present you are, the more you know how fleeting everything is. And I think that brings a lot to these poems, being mindful of what’s going on while I’m parenting.
Janet Lansbury: Yes, you’re mindful and then in these instances you’re also looking at yourself from the future, though. It’s interesting. Looking at your future, but not in a scary way, in an interested wonder kind of way.
Loryn Brantz: This might all get edited out, but it’s definitely opening a can of worms, talking about time travel with me. Because I’m very interested in it. I meditate a lot and something I realized when I was doing that was a feeling, just an intuition I had was that I know time isn’t linear, but I think when you meditate a lot, you feel that more. And I ended up getting really into reading about Einstein and physics and block universe theory and how everything that exists already exists. As a human, we experience, like, nothing. We only experience 0.0002% of what’s happening. Time is like a building and we’re like elevators experiencing it as we go, but really it’s all already there. Which is the way a lot of theories are, and that’s the feeling I get. And that’s just something I feel really in tune to, the presence of all time. Which probably sounds a little bananas, but I just love it.
Janet Lansbury: Not to me, I’m totally with you. And I’ve had very compelling things happen, that I won’t get into here, where I know that I “predicted the future” in that room that I was in that happened seven, eight years later. I mean something pretty traumatic. But in a way there was comfort in that idea of, oh gosh, time is not linear. I feel like that’s the opposite of linear, what you’re saying and what I believe, that it’s all there all the time.
Loryn Brantz: My baby book, It Had to Be You, I feel like that feeling of it had to be your child and when things feel like it’s meant to be, it’s because it kind of already exists and you’re just experiencing it in a linear way. That’s kind of, I think, where that feeling comes from.
Janet Lansbury: The reason I picked up on it and said this is because it does come through in what you’re writing, that you see that way, and I feel it is comforting. For me, because I’m a bit older than you, I sometimes think, Oh gosh, I look really old in the mirror. And then I think this actually isn’t comforting! But then I think, I’m going to look back and think how great I looked.
Loryn Brantz: It’s true, that is true. Every year I’ve tried to tell myself that and I’m like, gosh. Like most women, I had eating disorders in my early twenties, teenage years, and luckily I am almost 40 and I finally get it. I’m enjoying aging, I think it’s great. I feel very lucky.
Janet Lansbury: That’s great. Yes, I enjoy many aspects of it, the self-acceptance, feeling my place in the world, feeling comfortable with who I am in ways that I never did. But there are just some other physical, boring things, like having sleep be hard and all those kinds of things that I miss. But yes, it is what it is. And I just love this idea that we can zoom all around with our children.
And this is the third thing I was going to mention: seeing the humor in all the ridiculousness and the irony of this time when our children are little. That you really, really capture in this book.
Loryn Brantz: Thank you.
Janet Lansbury: The first one that you wrote for this, “Photos of You”:
Late at night
I look at photos of my kids
They are so cute
So precious
So pure
I hear a cry in the dark
And I think
Omg shut up I’m trying to look
At photos of you
It reminds me of when I finally had someone to help me with my first baby and I could get out of the house and do something. I would find myself in some baby shop looking at baby clothes.
Loryn Brantz: Oh my gosh, I know. Every time since I’ve had kids, if I have a minute to shop for myself, which is never, I’m like, Ooh wait, look at the kids section. Look at that little sparkly skirt. It’s so hard.
Janet Lansbury: You just can’t get them out of your head, and so even your relaxing time when you’re away, you’re not away. You’re enjoying them.
Loryn Brantz: I’m glad you said that because that’s definitely something I’m hoping this book brings to people is seeing as much humor as they can in the chaos that is having small kids. I mean, sometimes things get so chaotic. We’re just trying to leave the house and one kid’s tantruming, the other kid’s doing who knows what, and me and my husband, we just look at each other and start laughing. What is even happening? We’re both really gentle, calm people and our kids will be going off the wall, both of them screaming about something. And you can’t help but laugh, because what is even happening right now?
Janet Lansbury: There’s so many moments like that where you’re just like, is this really happening? Again, it’s getting that perspective, which you’re so good at. Stepping back and going, Our house has become this other thing. This is it.
Loryn Brantz: This is it. That’s something I say to myself whenever everything’s however it is, I just say to myself, This is it, baby. This is it. This is your life. Good, bad, however. This is it.
Janet Lansbury: You have a poem about Mother’s Day that to me has so many layers in it. And I totally related to it and just again, it’s an example of the honesty in this book:
I never knew
when I served breakfast in bed
what was really going on
in my mother’s head
Now I know better
Now that I’m Mom
The crumbly toast
and spilling juice
is actually kind of stressful
But she was still happy
even if it wasn’t
really
so
restful
Loryn Brantz: I have such fond memories of bringing my mom breakfast in bed on Mother’s Day. We did it every year. She had this little table thing and we’d all climb on the bed and she’d try to eat. And I really had no idea what it was like until I was Mom. I mean, this poem is exactly that, but my kids bring me breakfast in bed now and it is not relaxing at all. It’s really adorable, but oh my gosh, they get in the bed, they’re eating it, with the juices spilling, the bed bounces, there’s crumbs everywhere. And I’m like, Thank you so much. I love this relaxing treat of not making breakfast. It is really sweet, but different than I imagined it from my mom’s perspective as a kid.
Janet Lansbury: And can’t we all just eat down in the kitchen?
Loryn Brantz: Maybe a restaurant!
Janet Lansbury: But the effort is so sweet and like you said, you just want to kind of be performative and make it all work for them. Wait, who is this for? Here’s a really honest message to give our friends and family about parenting. It’s called “Weekends”:
Do not tell me
You hope
my weekend
is restful
Do not tell me
You hope
I recharge
Tell me
you hope
I survive
Loryn Brantz: Yes, weekends are brutal. You leave work on Friday and everyone’s like, “Have a restful weekend!” And you’re like, Um, I’m going to be getting up at 5:00 AM both days and it’s going to be nonstop. I feel like Sunday late afternoon is the hardest. We put on movies now, but when my kids were littler, when Dalia was little and we didn’t have movie time and we were just pushing through, it is hard.
Janet Lansbury: It definitely needs to be rebranded when we have children, weekends and holidays and traveling together.
Loryn Brantz: And then Monday morning they go to school and you’re like, ahhh. It is the most relaxing part of your week.
Janet Lansbury: For sure, and there’s no shame in that at all, obviously. I feel it’s obvious, but maybe it isn’t to some people, that they feel that way.
Loryn Brantz: I should probably feel more shame. They are a lot. I love them so much, but they are.
Janet Lansbury: It’s clear that you love them so much in this. And this is actually what I wanted to say, that the main reason I love this book, that I think it’s so unique and special, is that somehow you manage to do this really incredible thing. And I can’t honestly recall anyone else being able to manage this. And that is sharing so honestly about how difficult children can be, bluntly and with humor, but without in any way demeaning them, without laughing at them, at their expense. This is so rare. Maybe you know what’s out there. You capture how impossible kids can be, but there’s always this love for them underneath. So I’m applauding here, quietly.
Loryn Brantz: Thank you. I really do, I respect my kids a lot, so it just wouldn’t come out that way. They’re little people, and I love them. I’m so proud of them and everything they do, with Dalia, and I’m glad that comes through in the book.
Janet Lansbury: It totally does, and again, it’s a really hard line. It seems to be hard because other people that are being funny about children and parenting tend to go over that line into something that doesn’t seem respectful to me. Then I’m accused of not having a sense of humor. But that’s why I love your book, because you really capture the actual humor with the love that’s there and never disrespecting them. Because they are a vulnerable population, they can’t talk back to all these things that we say. And besides that, I feel like it’s not helpful to us as parents when we get into that thing of othering our children or perceiving them as drunken adults or whatever those comparisons can be that are for humor. It doesn’t help us. It makes it harder for us to join and connect with them in the ways they need us to when they are having those screaming fits or they’re doing other things that we don’t want them to do or just exhausting us. So we’re not doing ourselves any favors either.
Loryn Brantz: Yes, it’s true. I always remind myself that me and my husband, we’re on the same team. We’re on the same team when everything’s crazy. And you and your child are on the same team too. They don’t want to be having a tantrum, they’re so innately good. And whenever there’s crazy dysregulated behavior, this or that—especially with my daughter’s disability, she has a lot of emotional dysregulation and impulse control issues. I know she doesn’t want to do that and be like that, and we have to work together to get her out of that and to have her grow out of that. And she’s getting there, she’s growing and learning, and it’s not like she is trying to hurt me or the family.
Janet Lansbury: Of course not.
Loryn Brantz: She’s just dysregulated, and a toddler or a kid.
Janet Lansbury: Yes. And maybe that’s a little easier for you to recognize when you know that she has disabilities. Maybe that makes it easier, I don’t know.
Loryn Brantz: Yes, I think that that does make a difference. She is also very clever and all of these things, so sometimes I forget that she has disabilities and I have to remind myself.
Janet Lansbury: There’s a range with all children and while it may be harder to see with a typically developing child, but there’s always a reason. And the reason is never that they want to be doing that and they’re trying to get at us or hurt us in any way or offend us. I mean, that’s the last thing that any child would do.
Loryn Brantz: My son, he’s two-and-a-half and he has these tantrums, but he just wants to be able to do stuff himself and can’t yet, or he wants some sort of control over his life, which he doesn’t have much of right now. And I see where he’s coming from and I just sort of be there for him through it. I don’t know, just get through it. He’s so little, it’s kind of adorable.
Janet Lansbury: How does he handle the tendency to get dysregulated that his sister has? Does that come up?
Loryn Brantz: He is a very happy kid. And one of the first things he started saying a lot was, “Sister’s angry, sister’s angry.” And we’re like, yes. And it is hard because we want him to grow up in a calm household, so we usually try to move him away from the situation, but it is really hard. He doesn’t seem to react to it that much right now other than pointing out that she’s angry. And he’s so little, he’ll just kind of laugh. He doesn’t seem to be really understanding it or have a big reaction. One time she took my phone and threw it and he was like, “Mommy’s phone!” and was so upset and I was like, it’s okay. I don’t know, it’s something we’re learning as we go. And they have a lot of sweet moments too, but yes, it’s hard. We try to protect him from it.
Janet Lansbury: And I think also the empathy that you have for your daughter around it, that’s what he’s picking up on, that you’re not too dysregulated. That’s what he’s basing his sense of safety on.
Loryn Brantz: Yes, he seems to feel very safe.
Janet Lansbury: Yes, I’m sure he does.
Loryn Brantz: Both kids do.
Janet Lansbury: Yes, you’re doing a wonderful job. I have a couple more that I just wanted to read. This one that I really relate to, and it comes into all three of those categories that I was talking about: giving ourselves permission, the time traveling, and seeing humor in the ridiculous and the irony of things. It’s called “Mom Fashion”:
Crocs and socks
Baggy jumper
Hair in knots
No regrets
you still look hot
Mom fashion
Is just fine
Take that picture
aged like wine
If you don’t
You will regret
Not having photos
from
this
time
Loryn Brantz: I really need to take more pictures because I look back and there’s barely any, I’m always the one taking the picture of course. And then the pictures of me, I’m like, Wow, I look like a dishrag. But I will look back on it fondly and you’ve got to take those pictures. Kind of like what we were talking about, recognizing that every age you are, you’re going to look back and be like, Wow, I looked really good then. Why didn’t I appreciate it?
Janet Lansbury: That’s right. Okay, and for one more, I want to read this. I feel this so much. I mean, it could make me cry right now thinking about it. This feeling of how excited we are for our kids to just spread their wings and how exciting that is. And this is another thing about trying to be mindful and enjoy what’s right now, because we get so excited about them doing the next thing. And of course we want to be a part of that. And then there’s this thing called preschool, where we really want to be a fly on the wall, or I did. But anyway, this is what you said:
Your Days
The little photos I get
During the day
featuring you
Excited for
Bits of string
Ripped paper and things
Circle time sitting
Singing and snacks
Dancing
Backpacks
Are the best thing
I’ve
ever
Ever
seen
Loryn Brantz: Yes, those pictures are everything. Oops, we’ve got a child here. Do you want to come say hi? Come say hi and then go back.
Janet Lansbury: I’m Janet. I’m having a nice talk with your mom about all the sweet work she does and those pictures she draws. What do you think of those? They’re pretty good, right?
Dalia: Yes.
Loryn Brantz: Dalia actually loves to draw too.
Janet Lansbury: Lovely to meet you, Dalia.
Loryn Brantz: I’ll come out soon, okay?
Janet Lansbury: Yes, we’re going to sign off. Thank you for letting us talk.
Loryn Brantz: Oh, here comes the other one. Okay, I’ll be out soon.
Janet Lansbury: Well, I’m going to let you go. I just want to say that I picture many more volumes of this book.
Loryn Brantz: Thank you. I am working on the second one. I’m just going to grab Ronan. He can sit with me, it’s okay.
Janet Lansbury: I love it. The more, the merrier.
Loryn Brantz: I just wanted to say about that one poem that you just read. It was inspired by a photo from Dalia’s class where they had put netting on the wall and all the kids had little bits of string and they were putting it through the holes. And they looked so excited and it was just the cutest thing I’ve ever seen. It’s just little bits of string and fabric, but the world is new, everything feels so magical for them. I just love pictures from school, seeing them be independent.
Janet Lansbury: And just wondering what it feels like to be them right there and all the things that are going on. Because they’re not going to come home and report, unfortunately! Well, we did this and we did that. They’re okay, and then they come home and just blast us.
Loryn Brantz: Yes, let it all out. My daughter is queen of—what’s it called?—constraint collapse. She’s really, really great at school and really keeps it together and it’s hard on her, and then she comes home and just lets loose.
Janet Lansbury: It makes sense. And I think the more we can kind of welcome that and put it in perspective for ourselves, the easier it’s all going to be. Just letting her go for it, but it’s tough.
Well, thank you so much for everything, Loryn.
Loryn Brantz: Thank you for having me.
Janet Lansbury: And everybody should buy your book, especially for maybe a Mother’s Day gift or a Father’s Day gift, because it really captures all these moments that even as a parent of adults you can resonate with and make you feel that we’re not alone. These feelings are something that we all share as parents.
Loryn Brantz: That is something I’m hoping people get from this book too. You’re not alone. It is so hard. It’s magical, but so hard.
Janet Lansbury: And it’s okay to feel whatever you feel about it. I love that. Thank you so much, Loryn.
Loryn Brantz: Thank you.
Janet Lansbury: We’ll talk again soon, I hope. But in the meantime, I hope you’re enjoying all the success and giving yourself lots of permission.
Loryn Brantz: Thank you.
Janet Lansbury: Bye.
Loryn Brantz: Bye.
