I’m excited to be launching a weekly podcast series!
I hadn’t seriously considered doing weekly podcasts before, because I couldn’t wrap my head around adding another commitment to my plate. But recent developments have convinced me to give it a go…
1. It’s become increasingly clear to me that the written word alone is less than ideal for conveying the subtleties and nuances integral to respectful parenting. Many misinterpretations and misconceptions have come to my attention in the almost 6 years I’ve been writing about RIE parenting. These misconceptions will be easy to clarify through my podcasts.
2. Parents in my classes have been expressing to me lately how much they appreciate (and even need) my weekly in-person demonstrations of the tone and feel of respectful limit setting. Engaging with young children with respect is still, unfortunately, countercultural and can feel counterintuitive, so we need all the reminders and modeling we can get.
3. My books No Bad Kids: Toddler Discipline Without Shame and Elevating Child Care: A Guide to Respectful Parenting have been extremely popular on Audible.
4. The response to the few podcasts I’ve shared in my posts has been enthusiastic. Listeners have shared that my audio descriptions and demonstrations are what finally got them over the hump to truly understanding and being able to implement respectful parenting practices.
5. Last, but not least, I realized that I can do these podcasts without prep work (which was the daunting part for me) by simply providing my off- the- cuff responses to the questions readers send me via email, Facebook, etc. So these will be similar to my phone consultations, but without the back-and-forth with the parents. Basically, I’ll be having lively conversations with myself.
In the future, I plan to ask other parenting advisers and early childhood educators, particularly RIE Associate Lisa Sunbury (from regardingbaby.org), to co-host so I have a real live person to discuss issues with, and I’m also hoping to share actual recordings of some of my parent consultations (if I can get volunteers).
But to start out with, it will just be me and written questions like this one that I answer in the premiere episode of Janet Lansbury Unruffled:
Hi! I read your book and love it! I love the communication tips and acknowledgment. It’s along the lines of how we parent our almost 3.5 and almost 5 year old girls. But what drives me insane is the verbal incessant demands / screams. While the girls follow directions and don’t bite, hit or kick they do yell at me a LOT. I try to acknowledge their feelings while holding the boundaries firm and they are strong, insistent little people. They ask for something. I say no. They say, “But I want it.” I explain why the answer is no and offer other options if possible and they just start yelling about how they want it. I acknowledge they’re upset and frustrated. And then the screaming continues. The worst is in the car. I can’t say “I won’t let you yell at me” because I can’t stop them. It makes me want to just cry. While I remain calm, inside I feel trapped and tortured. I don’t want to pull over because I want to get to my destination. I have just been feeling beat up by the yelling and that they won’t stop arguing the boundaries. I feel like I’m doing something wrong because I am feeling annoyed. I don’t know how to fix it. Thanks in advance if you can help!
Here’s my response:
Thanks for listening! If you found this podcast helpful and would like a notification for next week’s episode, please subscribe to Respectful Parenting: Janet Lansbury Unruffled on Soundcloud, iTunes or Stitcher. I will not be writing more blog posts about this series (though I will periodically post the links on my Facebook page).
Here’s a transcript of this first episode of Unruffled: “Kids Saying No to Boundaries (Screaming).” It is courtesy of Torin Thompson (August 24, 2015)
Hi, this is Janet Lansbury, and in this segment of Janet Lansbury Unruffled, I’m going to answer a question about screaming.
Okay, here’s a question from Teresa from Facebook:
“Hi. I read your book. I love it. I love the communication tips and acknowledgement. It’s along the lines of how we parent our almost 3.5- and almost 5-year-old girls, but what drives me insane is the verbal, incessant demands/screams. While the girls follow directions and don’t bite, hit or kick (well, that’s nice) they do yell at me a LOT – lot in capital letters. I try to acknowledge their feelings while holding the boundaries firm and they are strong, insistent little people. They ask for something. I say no. They say, ‘But I want it!’ I explain why the answer is no and offer other options if possible and they just start yelling about how they want it. I acknowledge they’re upset and frustrated and then the screaming continues.”
Okay, I’m going to stop right here. So, “They ask for something, I say no.” Right, no, this is what we’re doing or this is what we’re not doing. “They say, ‘But I want it.’” Okay. It’s helpful if this doesn’t jar us or grate on us, that we can just accept, “Oh, interesting. Yes. I know. It sounded like you wanted it.” Or something like that, on that level. Very unruffled. Very “you’ve got a right to complain and yell and scream and have your disagreement with my limit.” So this is the most important interaction for us to get comfortable with as parents. We disagree sometimes. You disagree with me. You don’t like what I choose as your wonderful parent that’s always looking out for you and looking out for our relationship and all these important things. A lot of the details of that are things that you, my child, are going to disagree with. That’s called being in a relationship, that’s called very, very healthy, so getting comfortable with this as parents is important because what it sounds like is Teresa isn’t comfortable. As soon as they say “But I want it,” now she feels like she’s got to, I don’t know, come up with another answer or fix it or, you know, convince them further or do something else to make them not say something like that and definitely not scream, but actually both those things, “But I want it,” you know, whining, asking for it a million times, and screaming, stomping their feet, all of those things, again, it’s great that they don’t bite or hit. That would be something to calmly stop. But all of those reactions are within the realm of disagreement, the way children disagree. You know, they don’t disagree very politely and diplomatically. “Actually, I disagree. I don’t like that choice that you made, Mother.” No, they do it like this. Through these disagreements, they actually release other emotions, other stresses that they have, so it’s always positive. The bigger the overreaction, the more you can be sure they’re getting out of their system, and that’s a plus, because that means, you know, like all of us, when we clear feelings, we feel better. Now we’re at our best again. Now we’re feeling happy, now we’re feeling comfortable, and if we can clear our feelings as a child, not only clear them, but have them be calmly accepted by our parents, that is one of the biggest gifts we can give children, because what we’re saying to them is, “All these sides of you are okay with me. I accept all of you. I’m okay with you disagreeing. I’m okay with this side of you that’s not liking things that I do.” Magic as parents if we can give that message. Most of us as children did not get that message, that it was okay to be angry, that it was okay to disagree with our parents and have strong feelings about that. So again, this is gold, this is magic, this is the good stuff. Take advantage of these moments.
So they say, “But I want it,” and you might just look and nod and just nod your head. “Yeah, you want it,” without even saying that, saying that with a nod or a look. Very comfortable, very certain in your decision. Then you explain, this is what Teresa said, she explains why the answer is no. I wouldn’t do that. Unless you want to give the briefest explanation, which I would probably give the first time when I say no. I would say, “No, that’s not safe,” or, “No, I don’t feel like doing that right now.” So you don’t have to explain further just because they’ve expressed their feeling about it, and the feeling started with, “But I want it.” Don’t get into trying to explain yourself. That’s trying to talk them out of disagreeing. “Offer other options if possible.” No, you’re getting caught up in trying to fix it, trying to take away the disagreement. “Well look, you can do this, you can do that, look at all these wonderful things you can do! Don’t be disappointed! Don’t be disagreeing with my decision. See, it works out fine.” Again, all the child feels like that is you’re invalidating my right, you’re invalidating me and taking away my right to disagree and sometimes they’re disagreeing, again, because they need to blast you about the stresses they had at school that day or that you were gone at work or a number of other things, that they had trouble with a friend, or with their sibling, or something else. It’s important to trust. There’s always a reason and it’s always positive for them to disagree and have feelings about that.
Then Teresa says she offers other options and they just start yelling about how they want it. Right. “Mom, you’re not letting me say no, You’re not letting me disagree. You’re not letting me have my feelings about this.” It does tend to amplify the feelings when you’re not listening, you’re not, I’m not being heard here. Just let me be heard. So roll out the red carpet for the screaming. I know this is counter intuitive, counter cultural, counter everything but it’s very important and the key to having the comfortable relationship with your children that you want. That I know that you want. Roll out the red carpet. Scream to your heart’s content. This is what I’ve decided, I’m a great parent making great decisions, not that you’re going to say that, but in your mind. I’m working hard to be the best parent for you.
So the screaming continues. Let it go. Let it blow. Let it flow. All of those things. Just let it be and it will stop. Have you seen children do this? I see it all the time with toddlers. They scream so loud, they yell so loud or they cry so hard and in that moment I feel like this is going to be the rest of my life in this situation and look what I’ve done to this child, and I go to all these terrible places. But when I’m brave, when I let my shoulders drop and just relax and let, roll out the red carpet for them to have their feeling or their response, it goes away. It goes away very quickly. It’s magical. So do this. Trust this process. Be this brave hero that says, “Go. tell me, tell me how much you don’t like this, I want to hear, I want to hear the full extent of it. Blast me. I’m strong, I’m your mom, you’re my kids and this is normally and healthy for us to have this exchange.” Telling yourself all those kinds of things will help.
Then she goes on to say, “The worst is in the car. I can’t say, ‘I won’t let you yell at me.’” Uh-oh, so she’s been saying, “I won’t let you yell at me.” That’s making this all worse because now, by saying, “I won’t let you yell at me,” you’re giving your child this big ticket to bother you. “Here, look, here’s something that I can’t control you doing that really bothers me. I don’t want you to yell at me.” So again, I would have the opposite attitude. I would be, “Yell at me when you’re mad. You can’t hurt me with a yell.”
So she’s set this up, as we commonly do, all of us, she has set up this situation where her children can use this as a power tool to bother her. So at that point it even becomes something other than just pure, authentic “I need to scream.” It can become “I need to scream” plus “I need my mother to figure out why her children can just do something like this so easily that blows her out of the water.”
Anyway she says, “The worst is in the car. I can’t say, ‘I won’t let you yell at me,’ because I can’t stop them.”
That’s true. You can’t really ever stop someone yelling at you. You have to know deep in your heart that they will grow out of this, they will be able to self-regulate, they will not always be people yelling and screaming. Now if we yell and scream, that’s going to be very profound modeling because everything we do is profound modeling, so that can actually create a screamer, but other than that, this will go away if we can respond to it calmly and allow it and accept it and not be phased by it.
So she says, “While I remain calm, inside I feel trapped and tortured.” I think this is because most of us when we feel trapped and tortured by what our child does, it’s not just because the sound is loud, it’s because we feel it getting to us, like they’re being mean or we’re supposed to do something to make it better. Our child is not happy and that means the world is not good at this moment. We go to those kinds of places. So yes it’s loud, yes, I would just calmly put your hand, your free hand if you have one, on your ear. If it’s terrible and you say, “Please ok, guys, can you save that for when we get home?” or something, if it’s really bothering you, then I would maybe pull over. I would really maybe consider if where you’re taking them is a privilege for them. If it is, I would be very honest. “I’m not going to sit in a screaming car while I take you girls shopping so we’re going to turn around.” That is a very honest, logical consequence and the only kind I would ever use because it comes from your heart and your personal boundaries and you not being a doormat. So I would stop it at that point, but there’s really nothing else that you can do that’s effective. And again, I wouldn’t even do that to be effective, I would do it because that’s your real feeling. I can’t stand this and I’m not going to take you somewhere fun if you can’t respect me on this.
Other than that, I would let it go. If you say anything, I would try to very much understate it. “Huh, that’s a bit loud.” “Hmm, that’s a bit strong.” Those kind of responses. Totally sucks the power out of these behaviors that come under the category of “We can’t control this.” Same with words that they use as weapons. Same with, well really almost everything, I would have a calm, “This doesn’t bother me, you’re little kids, I’m a grown up” attitude. And that tends to diffuse so much of this and certainly take the testing out of it, making it more authentic. That will help you to know that, once you’ve taken your testing out it, that you’re being the recipient of testing, such a, I don’t know, such as easy recipient of testing by having a reaction. Once you take that out of it, then behavior becomes much more purely authentic. Wow, she felt so upset that she just needed to scream. So our responses add on to these behaviors, putting a little edge on them because it’s not just about that they need to scream, it’s about that they found this easy way to bother us and it’s a little bit disconcerting that it can be so easy to bother your mother who’s an adult, has been on this planet for a long time.
What Teresa says is, “It makes me want to cry.”
I’m sorry about that. Yeah, I think Teresa is going to a place of feeling victimized by this behavior, like her daughters are being bullies and just being so unkind and she’s taking this to a very personal place, which again is common for us to do. It’s not personal. The only thing personal about it is that we’ve had a big response to it, so that means what we do have is the power to totally diffuse this behavior and make it very, very rare by again underreacting, knowing its healthy, knowing its positive, the more they get out the better, the less primal scream therapy bills you’re gonna have in the future. That was one of Magda Gerber’s jokes, my mentor. She used to say sometimes if a toddler was screaming, having a meltdown in one of her classes, she would say to the mother, “Well, she won’t need to go to primal scream therapy when she’s older.” And I know, that could seem cold, but we all got it. We got that this is healthy for children, young children especially, to do. And teenagers, by the way. Not that much different. They need to scream, they need to slam the door, they need maybe to say, “I hate you.” Those kind of things. So rather than seeing these kinds of behaviors as a fail or feeling like a victim to them, see them as a win. Not that you want your children to be upset, but a win for your relationship because of the way you’re handling it. The messages you’re giving your children are amazing. You’re safe with me. You can show me your dark sides. Your feelings are a safe place to go. I’m Mom who knows what I’m doing. It’s a great opportunity.
Now Teresa says, “I have just been feeling beat up by the yelling and like they won’t stop arguing the boundaries.”
Okay, I didn’t even read that before I said it sounds like she feels bullied by her children. So don’t be somebody that can be beat up by yelling. You’re bigger than that. You’re stronger than that. Rise above this. You can’t get beat up by yelling. So again, seeing this differently, rolling out the red carpet. “Yell, yell louder, go guys, get it out, you really don’t like what I chose, you don’t like this boundary. Tell me. I want to hear it.” If you had that attitude, you’d be set.
“But they won’t stop arguing the boundaries.” That’s a really good point. “They won’t stop arguing the boundaries.” No they won’t, but the question here is, why are you arguing the boundaries with them? It takes two to argue. If you’re not arguing back, there’s no one to argue with. So let them complain about the boundaries. Let them say what a terrible boundary that was, fifty thousand times, that they really want to do it and how could you do this and all? Again expressing feelings, positive, good. Rise higher. Rise above it. Imagine yourself this big, powerful person, because you are in this relationship. And you know what? They need us to be. They need us to be big, powerful people in this relationship, because if not, they can’t be little kids in this relationship. They can’t be the kids unless we’re the big, powerful—comfortably and gently powerful—grownup.
So then Teresa says, “I feel like I’m doing something wrong because I’m feeling annoyed.”
Well, yeah, so what’s wrong is the way that she’s perceiving her children’s behavior and response to her limit. The way she’s perceiving it is what’s wrong. So feeling annoyed, if we’re perceiving this in a healthy way, won’t happen.
“I don’t know how to fix it.” That’s right, none of us know how to fix somebody else’s feelings. Throw your hands up and surrender to that.
“Thanks in advance if you can help.”
You’re very welcome, I really hope this helped. I share more about this in my book No Bad Kids, which is available on audio and Kindle and Nook and iBook and some other places I’m not thinking of right now. This should really help you get the dynamic of our relationship with our children around boundaries and how it feels to have that back and forth where we say, “This is something that you really don’t want to hear, but this is how it’s going to be.” We stay comfortable, they ask fifty thousand times, keep nodding our heads, maybe, or we don’t, we keep letting it go. Every ten times they say it, we say, “Wow, you’re still bothered by that, you’re still thinking about how I said no to that, you’re not liking that.” So it’s clear, it’s maybe a bit scary to go to these places and just let these feelings explode, but there’s a great freedom in it as well, and when you get used to this feeling, these feelings of diving into this, I don’t know, diving out of an airplane, whatever it feels like to just let feelings be, let them come at you and know that it’s not about you, it’s about them, very freeing. You may even get hooked on this. But it’s, as freeing as it is, it’s going to be, it’s still going to be a challenge. It’s still a challenge for me with my older children. Every time I do it and, you know, afterwards, I pat myself on the back. “You did it. You let them be themselves in this relationship with you. Be their worst selves in this relationship with you.” The amount of love they feel is incredible.
So that’s it for today. Thank you so much and don’t forget, we can do this.
(Photo by the wonderful Sara Prince!)